Transcript
First podcast talking about leader formation. And so, Chris, you started August 1st. Yep. So what it was. Yeah. So that's we're like six months in kind of, you know, seven. Yeah seven months. Lot of momentum already around this. And so some of this is because we've started things. There's been a pilot project for churches involved, most of our districts, not all yet.
Yeah. And lots of questions. Totally. And so part of this is how do we pre answer. Yeah. Get clarity questions that people have. Yeah. And if people are watching get to the end of this. Still have questions. Shoot you an email. Yeah. Well and there's lots of stuff coming like lots of different mechanisms to get people on board.
But yeah, just so much like clarity, I found, like I've been mythbuster a lot. So this is just a really good, like, concrete and vision casting right of like, where are we and where are we going? So yeah, but we wrote out some questions. Yeah, we won't necessarily stick to them. But while let's chat we'll go through all that.
So maybe talk about leader formation specifically. Yeah. And why is this such, leading priority defining priority perhaps for us for sure. For us as the Alliance. Yeah, but maybe even broader. Yeah. I think, like, you know, Rick came to our faith today. Article in 2024 says, like 625 pastors a year in Canada are retiring. Yeah. And, you know, best guess is that there's like, 150 to 250, graduates within our theological institutions in, in Canada.
So I've been saying, like, I'm not a math major, but I know that that's not a good thing, right? As we think about the future. So I think broadly, it's, it's it's a huge thing. But you know, within the alliance, it's just like how how are we going to double our reach? This is, you know, something on the floor, gar a few years ago.
And so it's great to talk about. Yeah. But like, okay, practically. What does that look like if we, if we are going to double our reach and it means new churches. Well, where are the leaders going to come from for that to happen. And so that has been like a driving impetus behind, you know, my job, the creation of my job was, was to do that.
I think you know, multiplication demands good leaders. And really, my my heart has been like, how do we how do we form shepherds after God's own heart for our churches that people are, well, lead that there's flourishing environments, there's evangelism, there's other leader formation happening within the local church. And so that really is like a passion of mine and I think a passion of, of our denomination.
And so like a leadership pipeline is like infrastructure for, this idea to double our reach. And we're trusting the Lord with that. Like, we don't, you know, it's hard to define exactly, but we just know leaders is a key part, of that. So maybe a question I have for you as you're, like, serving as the president, like, how does leader formation connect with, like, our heart and ethos as the alliance, both for our nation and for the world?
Yeah. I think even just even the historic connection, we have this deep connection to Jesus. Yeah. See, sea lions, we we would talk about, deeper life and mission. Yeah. And we want to go deep with Jesus. And then, of course, we want to be, I mean, in some ways, but we're activists. Yeah, go do totally work. And so, Simpson, even historically, like I think about this topic, we're talking about forming of leaders.
Yeah, this isn't new. I know so many movements across history. This is a lot of where the impetus started. Yeah. And Simpson had this desire, like, how are we mobilizing people and we still have this desire and how do we continue to move forward? So I, I also think how this relates to us in our heart for the nation in the world, deep DNA connection.
I think there's a lot of talk in some circles around this 2000 year anniversary. Right, right. Let's get 2033. Yeah. People say, well, it's 2033. Why does the Lions talk about 2030 for logistics? It helps. It helps meet our our rhythm. Yeah. Stuff. Yeah, sure. And I remember, my lead pastor Keith Taylor, which many people would know, he often remember.
He just drilled it into us, like, Easter's always coming, and there's a big push for Easter. But are you thinking about the Sunday after? Yeah, in some of these, in some ways, 2034 is we're just we're also thinking about the year after and how to continue to move on this. But there is this deep commitment to Canada. You talk about this clergy crisis.
Yeah. We have. So yeah, we're not even meeting attrition. Let alone the growth that we think is possible. Right. And I've just in conversations even with other movements and denominations and what I'm really grateful for is I think in many ways Covid helped kill levels of arrogance in us. We know, we know. So yeah, it's good.
And, there's just this desire to collaborate and to work together. And in many ways, the alliance, nationally is starting to lead in some of these conversations. Yeah, but it's not because we want to lead. We just want to try stuff. Yeah, because that's our DNA. Yeah, but we're for the capital C church. Yeah. So maybe even just a quick commentary before some of the other things we kind of want to go through.
Leader development is kingdom investment. I know when, when the from New York and when they went out to the West, you know there were Bible institutes that started here. But yeah, we're starting with some pilots in the Alliance. But it's not just exclusively the dream isn't just for the Alliance. Okay. Right. Maybe talk about that briefly. Yeah.
I mean, and this is really been I know your heart too is like, as, as we have done this. It's funny because other leaders in different movements, denominations, not just in Canada but in the US have asked me like, hey, what are you guys doing? And like, what can we learn from you? I like, I started like three months ago like, no, I don't know.
But I think it's exciting for me to be a part of the heart of our movement and our alliance family to be on, like, the innovative edge. On these sorts of projects and this initiative. And as I kind of settle in and able to read, like across our nation and even in North America, like there's just a heart and a hunger all over for these sorts and a need.
So it is it is, life giving for me to think about. Yeah. Like the flourishing of the Alliance Canada, but like the broader vision of like. And this could be a moment where, like, Canada could be transformed, you know, in the next ten, 15, 20 years because of the work that we're doing today, which is not topic of this conversation, but maybe context.
There's a there's a metric that a couple people are talking about. It's an indicator that they would say there's 6.4% engaged Christians. It's a whole different conversation. But we're kind of a doubling away from 13, 14, 15% of engagement of Christ followers in the country, which is a tipping point. Right? So when even you think about that, what is a doubling of leaders and pastors and laypeople in our churches?
That's why this matters. Yeah. And I think what's important for maybe those listening is it's I know for me, I can see it like we're dabbling away from the transformation of our nation. Yeah. That's incredible. Yeah. And what the Lord does in that. So, so maybe, maybe, talk a little bit about just this last year. Yeah. And maybe before that we talk about the what we did in the pilot.
But we, we did talk about sometimes people talk about shoulder tapping. And you reference like, hey, we're learning, we're doing this. But there has been a narrative I remember when I started, you know, there's there's sometimes a narrative. It's like those feeling called to ministry are no longer really in our churches. Yeah. Or institutions, academic institutions might be saying, well, the churches aren't sending us people like and we just feel like there isn't this, yeah, this mass of people that are moving and responding to God's call.
Now, we know harvest is mindful. Workers are few. Yeah. And we need to be praying and asking. Yeah. So before you maybe talk about the real specifics of this past year, you've started a pilot, on something called called. And, yeah, we've done a few events. Yeah. And I think we've been blown away. Yeah. I think the narrative of, like, there's nobody out there.
It just isn't true. I, I've traveled coast to coast in all of our districts since I started, and around every table that we've invited people to. Yeah, it's usually for people who are called or curious. And so just off the top of my head of the events that I have done or I've known about, we've had almost 400 people in the, in the last year, who have attended these events, which and that's maybe 10 to 12 events.
And then I'm hearing of churches that are doing this that I have no part in. Hey. Well, we just did a call to curious and we had this many people in. So like, I, I'm just enormously encouraged, actually, that the Lord is calling. Right. And there are people who are curious. And, you know, this pilot has been able to we've learned a lot, but at least provide a step forward for these people to discern, to grow, to be formed.
So, yeah, I that's one of the myths that I've been busting is like, no, no, actually the future is really hopeful, right? There's a lot of people and so much so, you know, I was I give monthly updates for those watching. Some people might see those and you're even like don't like maybe don't plug it is. Yeah. Because no decent man.
Yeah yeah yeah for sure. Like looking at next year like we only have so many spots and we're anticipating way more interest than we have spots, which is a good problem. But it's a prime and there'll be resources people can see on the website or through you know, on if they want to host their own. They definitely can.
Yeah. Yeah. We're providing packages and ways forward for Calder curious and stuff for next year. But yeah, yeah, it's a good problem. Talk about year one. We're not even finished yet. No, but know what happens? Yeah, this is great. So, like, the one line kind of description of what we've been doing is we're embedding pastoral discernment and information into the life of a local church.
So, we have, churches in four of our six districts this year in our pilot, involved we have 34 apprentices that have went through an application, pretty robust application with references and interviewed by by me. Involved. So we started in September. We're ending in April. So 34 embedded in a church. Yes. Pursuing. Yeah. Dynamic formation.
Yeah. And and pastoral formation. These are the people who are like, I think I might be called to ministry. Some have a discerned call to ministry. Yeah. But we are embedding that into the life of local alliance churches, across Canada, which has been really encouraging. They have been taking theological education from, nine different institutions that we have also approved.
I've interviewed making sure, making sure that they align with our seven educational values. So, yeah, for four districts involved, 34 apprentices, nine different institutions represented, which has been encouraging. And they've received $4,000 for theological education, up to $4,000, and then $1,000 of the $5,000 grant is for a culminating retreat that we're going to have at Barnabus Landing in BC.
Coming up here really, really soon. A part of that, too, is we've wanted people to feel like they're a part of something bigger than just their local church. And so we've done what we could this year to provide that kind of a cohort feel. And obviously, this retreat is going to be an amazing time to gather all of us, together to really just say, Lord, like, what are you asking of me next?
And having the courage to move forward? So, we've also done called a Curious Stuff this year, piloted that. There's also been, from our call to curious, a pilot kind of online cohort from one of our churches that have been involved, in, like, kind of, like, more discipleship stuff. So we're really it's a pilot. So when I say pilot, it's like we're just learning like a lot of what not to do, but also like, here's what's working.
So yeah, I can I would just I would just conclude by saying like just enormously encouraging. The feedback that we're getting, we're seeing people who started, who are moving to licensing already. Right. So it's working. Right. I think what I would really intrigues me on some of these things is that national office districts like we are for the local church.
Yeah. And so even in this model, it's not a program for churches that have to adopt and structure. There is a framework. Yeah, that they can, there's like permission to play in content. Yeah. So like you're, you're talking about this discernment cohort. That's not necessarily part of the plan for everyone. No. But they can figure out the contextual piece in their context.
And you talk about how do we we doing the best we can around building relationships? I think sometimes friendship. Friendship is this relational resilience glue. Yeah. That we seem to be missing sometimes. So living overseas, my experience was if you're 45, 50 plus and you came on a short term trip, especially from any of our Alliance churches, I put you, I put them all in the front of the bus because they all reminisced from there.
Yes. Of course. Right. Yeah. But if you're 40 or under, don't really matter where it's at because there was no shared narrative. Yeah. And so one of the beautiful, beautiful things of this is not just pastoral academic formation, apprenticeship embedded, but it's this connectivity across district lines. Yeah. Across the country. Yeah. As we yeah I think that's beautiful.
That's really, really beautiful. You talked about myth busting earlier. Yeah. That's kind of you doing a lot of that. Yeah. Or and common question. So, so maybe one of the questions we wrote down is what do you think is most helpful for churches to understand about this pilot. Yeah. I think these pathways that we are creating and forming are the two words I've been using are accessible and affordable.
Okay. So if the people who are asking like, what do I do next? I have this call, what do I do? Well, we need to create these things that are accessible to them. It's easy. They don't have to move. They don't write. And it's affordable. Like people can have a shot at discernment without incurring massive amounts of financial debt.
I just don't think that's a good stewardship principle to ask somebody to put their life on hold and get into massive amounts of debt, only at the end to be like, I don't think I'm called to ministry, which is fine, right? I just don't think that's good. I think we've learned, like I mentioned, that the Lord is raising up new workers.
It is happening. Yeah. So and the stories of, like, courageous obedience that are happening with our 34 people, like, actually on like my difficult days, I think about those people and like they are like without abandon following Jesus and I'm like, man, it's been so inspiring for me. I think around the accessibility is like we want different entry points for different types of people.
So we need to be flexible. There needs to be pillars that that we build upon. But as you said, like, you know, I served as a local church pastor in, in the alliance for 18 years. So I know life in the local church, and there's just so many different people that you're trying to serve. So we want different entry points.
And so we're going to pilot some things next year, which we'll talk about in a bit. We're learning that mentorship is vital. Like you talked about this cohort of friends. As I think about my formation. Yeah, it has been maybe a sense of a program, but it's been people. People have formed me. So we're really going to emphasize good mentorship next year.
As we as we build this out. And I think one of the other maybe myths I've been busting is the thought that, oh, you know, this is only for our larger, more resource churches. It's actually not right. This is for all different types of churches. It really crosses like size of church, even ethnic churches like this is accessible for everybody, which is so encouraging, that there isn't a barrier that you have to meet this, this threshold so that those are some of the things that we've learned and some of the myths I've been busting.
Yeah, I think even even our church. Yeah. Here in Milton, one student, it's perfect. You know, talk to someone the other day. Maybe it'll be two. Yes. But it's really accessible to you before, and and they're now part of a larger group of people journey together, which is super. I know, it's super encouraging. Yeah. To Gabe in our church here.
So, what we just talk about what is most helpful. Churches understand? Yeah. Churches that are thinking about this. Yeah. Maybe just frame it in a different way. Different angle. What do they need to know? Why should they participate. Yeah. What's the next step look like? It's so many reasons. I think you build your best leaders without setting them away.
Yeah. So there isn't a sense of like. Oh, no, now we have to say goodbye to the people that are making it happen already. Actually, no, this is just a more formal formation process that they can go through. Yeah. I think the alliance, kind of serves churches with processes and funding. So one of the things as a local church pastor, I mean, I was a lead pastor last year at this time.
So one of the beautiful things that I get to say to local church pastors is, hey, we have financial resources for any approved apprentice that we would love to come alongside your church and this apprentice. So that's a big deal. But it's also like we have the processes, we have the administrative structures so that the local church is focusing in on mentorship.
And they're focusing in on providing a really meaningful space for that apprentice to serve. Yeah, that they're getting experience in life of those. So those are the fun things that they get that they get to do. Which is really encouraging. And I think these and I just think about our participating churches in our pilot, they're telling these stories to their congregation.
These are the apprentices who are preaching on a weekend. And you get to introduce, hey, so-and-so is preaching this this weekend. And there's a sense in the local church of like, it probably won't be the best sermon they've ever heard, but they're okay with it, right? Because our first sermons were awesome. Yeah, yeah, I mean, mine was, but but there's a sense, you know, of like, we are being we're a part of this leader emerging leader story and that creates a culture of leader formation.
That would not happen unless you participate in these in these ways, I think. I think too, what we get to do as a family of churches is better than what you can do as an individual church, and for the reasons that you outlined, you know that they're a part of something bigger. We're going to build out some experiences that our apprentices across Canada, whether it's that retreat or we're thinking about international stuff in the future too.
So lots of benefit. Without hopefully a lot of the like heavy lifting, right, that we can provide. Right. So again, coming back to that, one of the words is accessible. Yeah. And affordable. Anyone anyone can engage. Yeah. So we've had a strong start. Yeah. In many ways.
00:18:30:02 - 00:18:47:03
I mean, I mean, I think the Lord just really surprised us. Yeah, right. Like it's just fast and we're running. Yeah. And, so maybe talk about the next year. What does it look like when do things open. Where what are we expecting for numbers, Lord willing. Yeah. And you talked about pathways before. What are new things that people can expect.
Yeah. Yeah that's good. So this year we've only had one pathway, thinking about accessible at different entry points. Our main pathway is what we've called church hub. So we're next year we're going to offer a second year for church hub people. So these would be people who are not just discerning but have a discerned call to ministry.
And there's a real sense from the local church that like this is a actually a future pastor, and we want to invest. So we're going to pilot a second year, next year. And then we're calling it like more accessible entry points as like two other pilots. And so one of them will be, and this is a real interest that I'm hearing is a second career.
So these would be people in their 30s, 40s, 50s. I've had people come after I've preached. It'd be like, don't forget us in our 60s and 70s who are retired and they're wanting training, to do it with if you have a mortgage or if you're working or like, it's it's really hard to do church Hub with three classes a semester.
But but we want to still offer those people. So we're going to have, like kind of a church hub light addition for those, looking to explore who already, you know, have all these different, life responsibilities. And then the other pilot, the third one that we're going to do next year, is supporting those who are in residence at Bible colleges or seminaries across Canada, who are at the further end of their formation.
Right. And they're like, yeah, I'm graduating or I'm doing an internship and graduate. We really want to come alongside those people. A colleague of ours, at Brier Cross, you know, I said, hey, I have like, Alliance students in my programs who are going to and want to serve at Alliance churches. Can we get some support or can we build a cohort with those people who are at the further end?
And so we're going to pilot something like that next year as well. So I'm encouraged by that. We're moving from 34 apprentices, this year to hopefully around 80 between 70 and 80. Yeah. Which is again, encouraging. We're expecting a lot more applications than just those 80. But, a part of this too is my my posture.
I wanted to come in and work really well with our districts. And so next year I want more district integration of just eyes and support. And so they're more, caught up on things as well as we've we've been bringing people along. I just think we're better together with national and district offices, which is good. And then next year, what we're adding to and I mentioned this earlier, it's just, building out a more robust, like, ministry mentor process as well.
The phrases like culture eats strategy for breakfast. And I think for leader formation, that's true. Like the places, the ecosystem that these apprentices are living in, right, is going to trump probably the classes that they take, the feeling that they have the investment that they receive is really important. So we're going to have a mentor guide for our ministry mentors who are mentoring our apprentices next year.
So just building out application for that and also having a ministry plan for every apprentice across Canada so that we we know that these apprentices who are giving a lot, aren't just responsible for getting coffee and setting up chairs, although dignified work, we want more investment, than just that. So there's there's a few things that we're going to build upon for next year.
So I think it's important for people watching, like we've tried something we just based on the conversations we've had, it's not even, like how many churches are involved right now. Yeah. We have, 12 churches involved. It's 12. Yeah, 34 students. We got over 400 churches in the country. Yeah. We think we're more than doubling.
00:22:32:13 - 00:22:51:12
We're going to go to about 80 this next year. We think we can double that again the following year. Yeah. And if we go if we go back to the beginning, you know, hopefully, Lord willing, we're praying that the Lord would help help the Alliance train 3000 new ministry leaders in the next ten years, maybe pastors, however they're paid the vocational journey international workers.
But you see, like we're we doubled year one. Hopefully next year will be 150 plus. Yeah we're we can see the future. We're getting to 300 a year quite quickly. And I think that's really, important for people watching that. And I would just say for people watching, if it's especially in these short times as this video comes out, if you're interested, you need to get people on the intake form.
Because we, we are sensing that there is greater demand that we can already deliver. Yeah, I know the board of directors is wrestling with that. How do we allocate funding for all those things? But in the short term. Yep. If you're ready to jump in, now is definitely a good time. Yeah. What would be thinking about next steps for churches to take action.
But one of the things I know we didn't quite talk about yet was there's all this information and we're giving grants. And then you you talked about a culminating retreat. Yeah. Which we're also paying for. So it's not only just, hey, we're subsidizing, you get a grant, but then we're bringing people together. Yeah. In many ways, a deeper life experience.
Yeah. We're doing this at Barnabus on the on the West Coast. But you also want to, incorporate international experience. Yes. Maybe talk about that. Yeah. As I reflect on my former national experience, it has been, people that have invested into me, but it's also been these experiences that I've had that have changed me. So I think about early on in my ministry, I was a licensed worker at the time, but going on a cross-cultural experience to central Mexico changed my approach.
Coming back, because I was able to see alliance people doing work with way less resources. And I, you know, it's those types of things. And so we we want to incorporate that those types of experiences. And so in January of 2027, our hope is to partner with link, to take a select group of our apprentices, which is an alliance project.
Yes, which is an alliance project in Peru to form people so that they see. Yeah. Here's alliance. I mean, I didn't know this, but the alliance has been improved for like 100 years. Yeah. So that is a very formation experience for a an emerging leader. Right. To have that to see like the heartbeat of the alliance is deeper life and missions.
You need to go. And so for a select group we want to offer like highly subsidized affordable. That's one of our values. Experiences like that. So we're looking to to incorporate that and then a vision I don't know when this is going to happen, but to partner with other other agencies and institutions to, to help people even go to the Holy Land, like an accredited trip, right to the, to the Holy Land where you can like, experience and walk where Jesus walked in that whole like the biblical world becomes alive and experience a world class teaching.
So these, again, are the things that I want to be able to invite our family of churches into being like, I'll do the work, I'll do the vetting, I'll do the fundraising. Just send your best and we can form them in these ways. So there's dreams of to do lots more of those types that we have. Pathways, like you said, and also experiences that we're going to build out.
Yeah. And I think.
To your point, your personal experience is definitely part of my story. 18 yeah. West Coast Africa, for a couple months just changed my life because it's not like the Lord doesn't need an international location not to do a transformative work in life. A heck, of course not. We know that, right? Yeah. But to be in a place, I often say, to be in a place where you're perhaps not as in control of your life as you perhaps once thought you were.
Yeah. To be surrounded by godly women and men. Yeah. It's just fertile ground. Yeah. For the spirit to do his work. Yeah. And so we deeply want to incorporate that. Yeah. Throughout these experiences, I think also it's those experiences where often the Lord gives more direct instruction or direction on future call. Yeah. So this is yeah. For, for like Canada.
But this is also our heart for the nations. Yeah. So we don't just want pastors. We want to send international workers as well. And these are some of the I think the tools and the experiences that hopefully form that sort of heart and call. Yeah, okay. Really practical. What are some of the things churches, potential apprentice apprentices need to know?
Like is there some more information, dates, applications. Yeah. So depending on when people watch this I mean this is obviously time stamped a little bit, but but we just want to communicate really well. So there's a massive website, revamp coming with all of our different pathways. There's going to be a church like page. So if you're hosting church, so basically we won't have dates here, but dates will be on the dates will be on, on the website for that.
So that's happening in the spring of 2026 here. We're going to host zoom calls for, interested apprentices and churches. So again, we want to communicate really, really well. For a second year, applications will go live on May 1st. There's going to be, an apprentice who applies. There's also going to be their ministry mentor, not applies.
But really, submit some supporting documents, like a ministry plan and stuff like that. Again, we just want to make sure that there's good alignment between apprentice and mentor. The, application time will end at the end of June. We'll interview in July and send out kind of approval acceptance letters, for August. And then our second year starts in September and goes till April of 2027.
So, lots of work to do between now and then, but we just have such a great team. Of people both here, the National Ministry Center, but great people that I've onboarded who are so passionate about leader formation, who are going to help kind of oversee that these next few months. So I'm just trying to think practically different people are watching this.
You got churches? You have apprentices? Yeah. A church could take could engage and say, yeah, we want to do that and we're working with someone or an apprentice might even see this and say, I want to, but I don't even know my church. So you go talk to your pastor. Yeah. But even if an apprentice fills out a form.
Yeah. Part of the process is then the chat, that church will be notified and we can take a next step. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. There again we just want great environments. And so there needs to be church acknowledgment of you know oftentimes sometimes the myth has been oh we get an intern or an apprentice and our job gets easier.
Right. And we we don't think that's true actually. So yes, there is going to be the apprentice applies and a good partnership with that local church and the local church. And the is basically going to say, I understand what I'm getting into. I understand my role as a ministry mentor, for that to happen. And so yeah, that will be the process apprentice applies there in the process.
Not even then. Process. They've committed. They're going to do this. Yeah. What can they expect. Like this is what they can expect in this process. What are the benefits or what perceived benefits that we think, especially even what our current apprentice is saying that these are these are the ways the Lord's been working. Yeah. So our, our like our pathways are founded on three pillars.
The first is ministry mentorship. Yeah. The second is practical ministry experience in the life of a local church. So they understand at the end of their apprenticeship I know what it's like at a church at Easter time, right? Or Christmas Eve. Right. They feel those rhythms and then theological education. And so it's those three pillars that help, form or help the discernment process in their formation.
And what we have heard from our apprentices is that they haven't had to move anywhere. They haven't had to get into debt. They've been able to explore, and they feel called to the next step, whatever that is, whether that's ministry or not. So these are the best places, I think, in the life of a local church where these people are already known and love to take that next kind of formal step towards what is the Lord calling me to do?
Let's think about it kind of slowly wrap this up. Yeah. Vision as you look ahead. Yeah. Not even a year in. What are you most excited about? Like I'm thinking about what's the Ephesians three? Immeasurably more than we can ask or about, like, what is. I mean, we're excited to trust God's imagination for all of this. Yeah.
00:31:10:08 - 00:31:34:21
What's motivating your heart? Yeah. Let's get the, like, framing prayer for me for the last ten years has been Habakkuk prayer. Habakkuk three. Now, we've heard of your fame. Yeah. We stand in awe of your deeds. Repeat them in our day, Lord, and in your wrath. Remember mercy. So that really, I've been praying for the renewal of the church in Canada, for a long time, and that was my drive as a lead pastor.
And it still is my drive, like a different assignment, but same drive. And so that to think about like, you know, the phrase like everything rises and falls on leadership. You know, there's some holes you can poke at that. But I think generally it's really true. So my, my passion is that we would have just amazing, like shepherds after God's own heart, loving the scriptures, loving the sheep under their care, evangelistic, courageous, bold, humble, collaborative, good, loving the people of their city and their and their region, you know?
And so, yeah, you know, there's a difference between planting a crop of corn. Yeah. And planting a crop for a vineyard. Yeah. And so the like a corn is like eight months. Six months. I'm not a farmer, but it's short. Yeah. Whereas a vineyard, you're actually thinking longer term and this is a long term thing. Yeah. I think we will see results.
We are seeing results. But long term I really believe that this can tweak, alter move for whatever language. The spiritual temperature, the interest. Yeah. In Jesus Christ in Canada and the world. So I deeply believe in what we're doing. And this is part of the call of my life in this season is to invest into that vision.
And so, yeah, as people are listening, like I would just say, if you're a pastor, like jump on board, like take a step, take a step. Absolutely. Yeah. It reminds me of,
Where I just think of John 15. You're talking about vineyards. Yeah. And, it's called faithfulness. You know, obviously the father cares deeply about fruitfulness. But but in many ways, you know, there's we obviously there's you prune the dead branches we honor. But the hardest part is pruning good things for better things. Yeah. And even in this journey of iteration, even when the missionaries came out there, Western Canada iterating, doing new things, gospel carts and or horseback, it's like, yeah, they gave them enough food for a night.
Yeah. Come back in three days and report what God did. Yeah. And I'm like, wow. Like, yeah, it's just wow. In so many ways. Even this hub model re emphasizing, calling and formation in new ways in some ways is a printing. Of going, hey what is the better way that you have for us Jesus. Today. Yeah.
As we continue to move for this. And so these are exciting days. Don't know what it all what it's all going to look like. Yeah. Think maybe in closing. Yeah a student regardless of age range. Yeah. Is they're feeling a tug but unsure like I'm thinking about. I was just at a Tim Hortons on Saturday. Yeah, with someone wrestling has their undergrad undergrad done.
Yeah. And thinking about call and how to explore. Yeah. What would you say to someone that is feeling a nudge? Not sure. Can't say yes. I'm called. Not even sure what that means. Right. But there's something stirring while I'm listening to you guys talk. Yeah I think pay attention. Pay attention. And.
I think if we, if we think of the whole picture all at once it's so overwhelming. Yeah. But like what's your next. Yes. Well what's, you know as I again reflect on my leadership formation, if he gave me the whole picture, there's no way I would have done it. But it's just that next breadcrumb that I think in like Jesus's good shepherding kindness, what we'll do and so like pay attention to that stirring.
I think pray for courage to take that next step that next year and bring people like in community. So like pastors bring them in. Hey, what like what do you see? What I've said to local church pastors is like, the first step forward is just to have I seen you conversations, right? Here's what I seen you like that doesn't mean you need to give up being an engineer or a stay at home parent or whatever.
But here's what I seen you so that we can start to like, raise the imagination for what could be possible. Because some of the myths that people have is like, oh, I'll never be a pastor. I don't want that title because it's whatever, it's inaccessible. But it's like, oh, just like take the next, yes, say, say the next yes and be obedient to that.
And this is where I think our pathways are super helpful for churches and for people to say, oh, I could do that. And that's what I've heard so often, is right. Oh, I could do that. Right. So I'm excited to see the people who take that next. Yes. Yeah. Be a part of our informational pathways. Serve at their local church and prayerfully and hopefully become licensed workers, pastors, international workers for for our our movement.
Maybe it maybe a question to end Darren as as you serve our denomination as president maybe just cast some vision like what's your hope, what's your passion behind the potential of all of these things? Yeah, I just think I'm a super simple person who wants to be faithful to Jesus. Yeah. And so I think I think for me, as a as listen, you talk and this would maybe wrap it up for us is, you know, in Psalms I was reminded, you know, the verses song said, he's a lamp unto our feet and a light into our path.
00:37:03:22 - 00:37:21:19
And the reason I often think about that is when is when we talk about courage and we talk about boldness. Often when we think about courage we think of this picture of a complete a task. So we think of something way down there like you said we think of the whole. And that just feels insurmountable.
And we know, I know I'm not going to get there. Of course it's Jesus in us that does that. But I think often courage is like that versus the lamp into my feet in the light into my path. What is what is the next step. Courage is just the next step. And so my prayer for us as a movement is to continue to say yes to Jesus.
What does greater submission, surrender, and obedience to Jesus look like every day, whether people see it or not? But knowing he does, he advocates for us that Jesus is the lives he saves. And if you place your trust in him, he change. He changes absolutely everything. Yeah. And I want to add, you know, 100 years from now, I hope that we truly like Scripture says that we would become less, that he'd become more that I really hope they don't remember our names.
Yeah, but they remember a group of people. Yeah, that were sold out for Jesus. Yeah. And I think this is a part of that journey. So if you're a pastor, if you're a student or you're you're wrestling, say yes to him and whatever he's asking you to do and, maybe just close praying for a blessing. Yeah.
It's okay as we move forward. Lord, what a time. And you have called us, in this season, in our churches and our regions and provinces and in our nation, in our world, to follow you. So, Jesus, I do pray for courage. I do pray for courage, for those who are listening in, who are, sensing and curious about a call whether they are next gen or midlife or Lord even are retired and have so many transferable skills that they can give to you in the church.
Lord, I just pray for courage for them, for clarity. I pray for pastors who are listening in, who are actually on board or want to be on board. Lord, that they would have these icy new conversations, that they would start to build a culture in their church of, of, spotlighting others, of them stepping back so others can step in.
And Lord, that we would form new people, shepherds after your own heart. So, Jesus, thank you for being, the lead pastor of our churches. Thank you for being the shepherd, who guides us to flourishing places. And I, I pray that for the Alliance Canada, from coast to coast to coast. Lord, today and in the days ahead.
And we trust you, Lord, for fruit as we want to be found faithful. Amen. In your name we pray. Amen. Thank you. Thanks.